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quote:

Originally posted by echosystm bass is actually the most important thing to worry about, as most rooms are not capable of absorbing bass frequencies well at all.

Yup! Put on some muzak, go stand in a corner and hear the bitch build up over there. If you're not going to treat your room, at least consider some (homemade) basstraps and place them in the corners.

- farris

I fail to understand why some people will attempt to feign knowledge about something which they are totally clueless about!

quote:

Originally posted by palm yo is there bass-driver inside the speakers or is is just the fulltone drive? how much does just the drive costs? i want to build myself monitors too.

I'll answer this...

No, it's just one full range driver. Rich won't tell anyone what driver it is, but I would consider betting my left testicle that it is a Jordan JX92/JX92S.

http://diyparadise.com/shop/index.p...&products_id=23

$390US per pair.

quote:

Originally posted by MegaMan as far as i can remember, bass travels slower than higher frequencies...

Oh, no.

I'm surprised that nobody has corrected this misconception. For the sake of this discussion, the speed of sound is not a function of frequency. (Except in adiabatic situtations, with specific gasses, in specific frequency ranges, don't quote me on this, please)

Here, get a little education on the behavior of sound waves reflecting off of a surface. SCIENCE!!!!!Shift+1 It's a thing I did a while back to take to high schools and do demonstrations. I did Figure 1 in MS Paint!

Also, nicely enough, Ferry Corsten's "Fire" hits some nice resonant frequencies for demos. I should take video of this when I get back up to Seattle.

an 80hz sound wave takes about 10 feet to do a full cycle, compression and refraction. so you wont hear it at its loudest unless your 10 feet away.. this is where the misconception comes from.

quote:

Originally posted by 3F05Q I'm surprised that nobody has corrected this misconception.

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm what you are confused with is the physical distance it takes for a low frequency wave to develop. this doesn't have a lot to do with standing waves and accoustics really.

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm the physical distance it takes for a low frequency wave to develop. this doesn't have a lot to do with standing waves and accoustics really.

Explain or reword before I call BS. What do you mean 'develop'? Are you describing a specific situation? You too mysticalninja.

also, you didn't correct his statement regarding speed of sound as a function of frequency directly. You were setting him on the right course, but I feel that there are just some concepts that any producer needs to understand, including the basic nature of sound waves.

he said bass is unimportant because the sound is delayed due to the low frequency. i corrected him, saying that timing is irrelevant (obviously because we're talking about reflections etc.).

i assumed he got his argument confused with the fact that a low frequency sound wave takes a longer physical distance to do one full cycle than high frequency waves - not the effect on accoustics.

No worries Palm, we're good now.

Sorry for being picky with my physics, and I promise to post pictures after I move. Okay?

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm sorry mate, this post is an epic failure. hs80ms are rear ported. this means the bass flies out the back of the cabinet. bass builds up in corners. his speakers are facing back into a corner. = standing wave mania. it is a very bad idea to have your speakers going back into a corner because the frequencies accumulate at a very small point. this happens on all monitors, but really badly on rear ported designs. the reason you have speakers firing down the long end of the room is to reduce late reflections. conversely, you should have them firing accross the short length of a narrow room as it stops early reflections. he is also massively off axis. unless he sits a good 1-2m back from his computer, hes not on axis. the way the speakers are positioned at the moment makes them akin to headphones, except there will be massive comb filtering in the middle.

Cheers for that mate, I wasn't aware the HS80M's were rear bass-ported.
If so, then all your observations are spot-on

quote:

Originally posted by varun Cheers for that mate, I wasn't aware the HS80M's were rear bass-ported. If so, then all your observations are spot-on

it applies regardless of speaker type

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm it applies regardless of speaker type

You think so? Actually, my background is not really studio design and setups but, more towards installation audio / pro sound.
In that regard, I'm not really qualified to answer.

However, in my experience, I've kept sub-bass units in the corners of certain rooms and have achieved excellent bass response down to 30 Hz without any noticeable phase cancellation.
Mind you, none of these units were rear-bass ported.
JBL SRX 728S, if you've head of them.

Of course, those rooms were acoustically treated w/ low RT60 / RT30 and great intelligibility to start with.

Personally, I prefer flown-subs w/ line-arrays for larger installations.
It's pretty hard to beat the vertical pattern control, low drop-over distance and the even SPL distribution

IMHO, stay the hell away from 2.1 systems. You have to be so particular/precise with a separate sub and someone else just walking in to the room can effect the accoustical dynamics.

With mid or near monitoring systems the sound ideally is the direct output from the speakers with the room tailored as best as possible to reduce colouration (or not as sometimes desired for a particular room "feel").

Flown subs and line arrays are only for live sound reinforcement and while they do offer good clarity for music dependent on good hi frequncy respresentation (classical, vocals etc), I'd take a traditional stack set-up any day for popular music (edm, rock, pop).
LA systems are great in hockey rinks and are actually more efficient in terms of the amount of kit needed (as opposed to regular stacks)but nearly every prolive sound engineer I know perefer stacks.

quote:

Originally posted by palm agree on that. if your going to have subs i would prefer stereo on those too.

I dont think there is such a thing as a sub in stereo because bass is monodirectional.

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J I dont think there is such a thing as a sub in stereo because bass is monodirectional.

It is at low enough frequencies. Palm was probably talking about those shit systems where the "sub" goes all the way up to 800-1000

quote:

Originally posted by 3F05Q Explain or reword before I call BS. What do you mean 'develop'? Are you describing a specific situation? You too mysticalninja.

develop. as in, complete a full cycle, from compression to refraction. look it up.

quote:

Originally posted by mysticalninja develop, complete a full cycle, from compression to refraction. look it up.

I'm a physicist, I'm quite familiar with it. "complete a full cycle" is fine. By "compression to refraction" you mean 'rarefaction', which is a decrease in density, and compression to rarefaction would only be a half-cycle.

Your earlier statement: "so you wont hear it at its loudest unless your 10 feet away" would only apply to a situation in which there is a standing wave with a wavelength of 10 feet (a wall n10+5 feet away where n is a positive integer, for instance). Otherwise, the loudest point would be at the source. For a point source, the intensity drops as 1/r^2, while the sound pressure decreases as 1/r. look it up.

I'm not talking about wierd situations in rooms with objects and a sub on the floor, blah blah blah, and perhaps it's a difference in context that is leading to a misunderstanding. I'm not versed on room treatment and behavior like some here are, which is why I wouldn't attempt to discuss such specific scenarios. As many have taken the time to educate me, I like to return the favor where I can.

If you'd like to discuss anything further, drop me a PM, I'm beginning to feel like a threadjacker.

quote:

Originally posted by mysticalninja wtf are you talking about? i was pointing out where the misconception that you were pointing out comes from, not challenging you to some duel of mental manhood, genious. and by the way, you're wrong about 2 things. compression to rarefaction (yes thank you for correcting my spelling) is a full cycle of a sound wave. and 60hz wont be loudest at the source, it will be loudest 10-12feet away, which is about the distance it takes for 60hz to fully develop. this is why cars will sound so loud coming down the street.. and theres nothing wrong with saying develop instead of "complete a full cycle", gtfo you highhorse fukin robot monkey.

Nice thread edit?

Honestly, why do you feel the need to attack me directly. "fuckin robot monkey" ? Really? Honestly, why? Of course this isn't some "duel of mental manhood." I'm sorry that you're used to crap like that happening, seeing as how it's the internet and all. My intentions are not and never have been anything like that. Read my PM that I sent before you edited with the BS personal attacks. I was hoping to discuss it further with you there.

(I'm taking the perspective of maximum compression, to maximum rarefaction and then BACK to maximum compression for a full cycle. Symantics. Whatever.)

This entire conversation should have never taken place, and I apologize for how off topic it is.

quote:

Originally posted by 3F05Q I'm a physicist, I'm quite familiar with it. "complete a full cycle" is fine. By "compression to refraction" you mean 'rarefaction', which is a decrease in density, and compression to rarefaction would only be a half-cycle. Your earlier statement: "so you wont hear it at its loudest unless your 10 feet away" would only apply to a situation in which there is a standing wave with a wavelength of 10 feet (a wall n10+5 feet away where n is a positive integer, for instance). Otherwise, the loudest point would be at the source. For a point source, the intensity drops as 1/r^2, while the sound pressure decreases as 1/r. look it up. I'm not talking about wierd situations in rooms with objects and a sub on the floor, blah blah blah, and perhaps it's a difference in context that is leading to a misunderstanding. I'm not versed on room treatment and behavior like some here are, which is why I wouldn't attempt to discuss such specific scenarios. As many have taken the time to educate me, I like to return the favor where I can. If you'd like to discuss anything further, drop me a PM, I'm beginning to feel like a threadjacker.

To put it more clearly, the Inverse square law.
Sound intensity is inversely proportional to square of distance.
For the doubling of distance from the point of origin, the SPL drops by 6 dB.

One thing to note is that the Inverse Square Law applies to point-and-shoot speakers.

Line array speakers are another story.

Finally, I get to post in this awesome thr4d.

THRAD??? GGTFO

Nice No Left Turn. Looks comfortable. How about you rotate the monitors a bit inward facing you. Hopefully this picture will get this thread going on again for what it's intended for.

- farris

quote:

Originally posted by No Left Turn Finally, I get to post in this awesome thr4d.

Diggin' it man.

How's that M-Audio DJ whatchamahoozit treatin' ya?

quote:

Originally posted by farris Nice No Left Turn. Looks comfortable. How about you rotate the monitors a bit inward facing you. Hopefully this picture will get this thread going on again for what it's intended for. - farris

The monitors are designed to point straight and not angled towards one's ears/head. I know, pretty much everything about the design of the monitors are pretty odd, but it all somehow works the way it's supposed to. The manual even specifically says to have them pointing straight and they actually do sound really weird if you angle them inwards.

3F05Q:
The M-Audio Xponent is treating me very well. Got the jog wheels adjusted to feel just like the pioneers so DJ'ing feels extremely normal. The software itself is kind of irritating. Though, it's functionality is extremely powerful and easy to use, the GUI is absolutely wretched and the file browser is only a few rows in size. If you don't have decks and just need a setup at home for practice, it's definitely worth it.

What monitors are they?

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